Read the Torah. What entered the promised land. Joshua (Jesus/Yeshua), the children born after the Exodus, the Ark and the 10 commandments. That is it and that is all. Everything else is a memory. Mosaic laws didn't make it in. Even then Jeremiah provides later that what was written on stone will be written on hearts and minds. The Torah journey is memory.
Later we see in gospel narrative this Jesus/Yeshua saying he did not come to break the law but fulfill it... to complete the journey written in the Torah where it could be seen those asserting laws had not.
I wonder how Christian women justify sleeping in their husbands shorts while spitting pure hatred on the LGTBQ community with the parable about mixing women and men's clothing.
Sorry, feeling a tad snarky while trying to navigate the way I was staying to believe, vs what I feel in my ❤️, vs my scrupolocity.
I love this article. And I love how you mentioned the eunuch and Isaiah 56 because that is something that I learned from BEMA and it is such a beautiful story of inclusion.
The hatred that Christians spew against transgender and homosexuals is absolutely disgusting. Yeshua does not support them in that.
How can you support Torah observance and not oppose homosexuality and transgenderism? This article explicitly promotes antinomianism to dismiss Deuteronomy 22:5. Also, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 explicitly condemn homosexuality to the point of commanding the death penalty to be inflicted on those who practice it.
I believe that God made man in Genesis 1 male and female in one body. God is male and female.
In Genesis 2 God seperates male and female. In Malechai 2:15 we read that God had breath to create another but He did not.
In eternity there will be no male or female. Male and female on earth has a spesific purpose. God wanted godly offspring. Deciding to change your gender doesn't make you less human, you miss what God intended for you as the biologial gender assigned to you. The biggest attack on earth is on your identity (The first thing Satan questioned with Jesus in the dessert) and if you dont know what your identity is even if you are NOT transgender you are missing out on what God intended for you.
It makes it difficult. If the world denies the illness the patient is most likely to also.
To call T wrong is brave these days. Probably transgenderphobic :). But how is it different from calling adultery wrong (as Jesus put it)? It is different because the Church has never approved of porn, never approved of sex before marriage, never approved of adultery. But LGBT? Once yes, now, with six coloured flags on certain ‘churches’, with so-called christians in govt supporting it (as per Rom 1), a deep hole has been dug. The church is now at risk of hate-speech (see Norway). A lack of teaching, a lack of forthrightness (not hate) that LGBT is sinful leaves parishioners in a swamped boat.
The church has not attempted to fill the hole and now there is a big problem. People who experience divergent opinions. They go to where they are aligned, whether a pew or a website.
Pastorally means saying what scripture tells us. Jesus lost disciples over eat my flesh and drink my blood. That line stills puts people off.
Love thy neighbour has no caveats. That’s above all things. God renews our mind (Rom 12) as we walk in faith. That renewal is the Spirit working and that is where the person suffering can be healed. Or is that naive?
Should the T person truly have faith, then one would expect that any sins will become thorns, as they do for all believers. It remains to be seen, given the relatively recent pushing of T for confused individuals, whether those T people will find themselves convicted of error or not. I suppose it might be argued T is not a sin, and therefore there will be no related thorn. There is of course the further issue of whether or not the change from m to f or vice versa has also resulted in same sex practices. That adds a layer that would definitely be expected to cause the Spirit to prod if the faith is genuine.
This has been quite the exercise for me. We had a neighbour (next door) go T, m to f. I treated him no differently. I didn’t use his new or old name. He had dropped his RC faith years earlier (choosing a more Hindu all spirits blend into one thing) so no opportunity to appeal to faith.
I suppose all we can do is keep such people close, pray for their faith to mature, and for the Spirit of Christ to lead and renew.
Long-winded reply that I don’t know adds anything useful to the mix. I admit it is biased against T, and LGB for that matter. I think this is faith-based rather than my sinful self.
Thank you for your response. This is the kind of conversation churches need to be having and aren’t.
I think some people are T, and even LGBQ, as a choice made from environmental factors. They usually don’t last as LGBTQ. Biology always finds a way.
I think most are naturally born that way. As a pastor for almost 30 now, to many LGBTQ people and many in a denomination where they had to stay closeted, I never met one who God changed. I saw God change their heart, their attitude, set them free from drugs and alcohol, and even prostitution. But their sexuality or gender dysphoria, not one.
In fact, some felt more alive in Christ and then craved love, family, and relationship, but were taught to hate themselves for it. They usually just left the church, remained believers, and we lost their gifts to the world. Others, committed suicide because they badly wanted to be part of the church but were still who they are and still wanted love and companionship like anyone else. Others married the opposite sex and had families as the church taught, then the marriage fell apart and the children were deeply affected.
To me, this is not the results of any good news. It is the result of putting a text above people’s lived experience.
Sorta like some faith healing cults in the 20th century who were known for teaching terminally ill patients that their lack of faith was killing them. The had the Bible verses to support their belief. Many died early deaths in great sadness, anguishing in their faith rather than having a death filled with love and people around them supporting them.
Pastorally, this cannot be the way. I think queer people deserve full welcome. I think the church can still work on understanding and hermeneutics without “watering down” the faith. I think letting people grow into what brings them light and love is a net positive, and have seen hundreds of examples of LGBTQ Christians who bear the fruit of the spirit and with whom my spirit bears witness; after they left church altogether of found one who’d let them be and grow together with a community of faith.
Read the Torah. What entered the promised land. Joshua (Jesus/Yeshua), the children born after the Exodus, the Ark and the 10 commandments. That is it and that is all. Everything else is a memory. Mosaic laws didn't make it in. Even then Jeremiah provides later that what was written on stone will be written on hearts and minds. The Torah journey is memory.
Later we see in gospel narrative this Jesus/Yeshua saying he did not come to break the law but fulfill it... to complete the journey written in the Torah where it could be seen those asserting laws had not.
I wonder how Christian women justify sleeping in their husbands shorts while spitting pure hatred on the LGTBQ community with the parable about mixing women and men's clothing.
Sorry, feeling a tad snarky while trying to navigate the way I was staying to believe, vs what I feel in my ❤️, vs my scrupolocity.
I love this article. And I love how you mentioned the eunuch and Isaiah 56 because that is something that I learned from BEMA and it is such a beautiful story of inclusion.
The hatred that Christians spew against transgender and homosexuals is absolutely disgusting. Yeshua does not support them in that.
How can you support Torah observance and not oppose homosexuality and transgenderism? This article explicitly promotes antinomianism to dismiss Deuteronomy 22:5. Also, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 explicitly condemn homosexuality to the point of commanding the death penalty to be inflicted on those who practice it.
I believe that God made man in Genesis 1 male and female in one body. God is male and female.
In Genesis 2 God seperates male and female. In Malechai 2:15 we read that God had breath to create another but He did not.
In eternity there will be no male or female. Male and female on earth has a spesific purpose. God wanted godly offspring. Deciding to change your gender doesn't make you less human, you miss what God intended for you as the biologial gender assigned to you. The biggest attack on earth is on your identity (The first thing Satan questioned with Jesus in the dessert) and if you dont know what your identity is even if you are NOT transgender you are missing out on what God intended for you.
You might find this of interest:
https://substack.com/@john316111/note/p-197169271?r=3mxhqw
It is an illness.
How does that change the pastoral approaches I am suggesting here? Or does it?
It makes it difficult. If the world denies the illness the patient is most likely to also.
To call T wrong is brave these days. Probably transgenderphobic :). But how is it different from calling adultery wrong (as Jesus put it)? It is different because the Church has never approved of porn, never approved of sex before marriage, never approved of adultery. But LGBT? Once yes, now, with six coloured flags on certain ‘churches’, with so-called christians in govt supporting it (as per Rom 1), a deep hole has been dug. The church is now at risk of hate-speech (see Norway). A lack of teaching, a lack of forthrightness (not hate) that LGBT is sinful leaves parishioners in a swamped boat.
The church has not attempted to fill the hole and now there is a big problem. People who experience divergent opinions. They go to where they are aligned, whether a pew or a website.
Pastorally means saying what scripture tells us. Jesus lost disciples over eat my flesh and drink my blood. That line stills puts people off.
Is there a way to not deny transgenderism and still treat the patient exactly the same as we do say a cancer patient, or a dementia patient?
Love thy neighbour has no caveats. That’s above all things. God renews our mind (Rom 12) as we walk in faith. That renewal is the Spirit working and that is where the person suffering can be healed. Or is that naive?
Should the T person truly have faith, then one would expect that any sins will become thorns, as they do for all believers. It remains to be seen, given the relatively recent pushing of T for confused individuals, whether those T people will find themselves convicted of error or not. I suppose it might be argued T is not a sin, and therefore there will be no related thorn. There is of course the further issue of whether or not the change from m to f or vice versa has also resulted in same sex practices. That adds a layer that would definitely be expected to cause the Spirit to prod if the faith is genuine.
This has been quite the exercise for me. We had a neighbour (next door) go T, m to f. I treated him no differently. I didn’t use his new or old name. He had dropped his RC faith years earlier (choosing a more Hindu all spirits blend into one thing) so no opportunity to appeal to faith.
I suppose all we can do is keep such people close, pray for their faith to mature, and for the Spirit of Christ to lead and renew.
Long-winded reply that I don’t know adds anything useful to the mix. I admit it is biased against T, and LGB for that matter. I think this is faith-based rather than my sinful self.
Blessings
Thank you for your response. This is the kind of conversation churches need to be having and aren’t.
I think some people are T, and even LGBQ, as a choice made from environmental factors. They usually don’t last as LGBTQ. Biology always finds a way.
I think most are naturally born that way. As a pastor for almost 30 now, to many LGBTQ people and many in a denomination where they had to stay closeted, I never met one who God changed. I saw God change their heart, their attitude, set them free from drugs and alcohol, and even prostitution. But their sexuality or gender dysphoria, not one.
In fact, some felt more alive in Christ and then craved love, family, and relationship, but were taught to hate themselves for it. They usually just left the church, remained believers, and we lost their gifts to the world. Others, committed suicide because they badly wanted to be part of the church but were still who they are and still wanted love and companionship like anyone else. Others married the opposite sex and had families as the church taught, then the marriage fell apart and the children were deeply affected.
To me, this is not the results of any good news. It is the result of putting a text above people’s lived experience.
Sorta like some faith healing cults in the 20th century who were known for teaching terminally ill patients that their lack of faith was killing them. The had the Bible verses to support their belief. Many died early deaths in great sadness, anguishing in their faith rather than having a death filled with love and people around them supporting them.
Pastorally, this cannot be the way. I think queer people deserve full welcome. I think the church can still work on understanding and hermeneutics without “watering down” the faith. I think letting people grow into what brings them light and love is a net positive, and have seen hundreds of examples of LGBTQ Christians who bear the fruit of the spirit and with whom my spirit bears witness; after they left church altogether of found one who’d let them be and grow together with a community of faith.