I was a Plymouth brethren. John Nelson Darby was their prophet. Went to their bible college. I thought that if I went to school I’d be closer to God. Didn’t happen. Several years later as I wrestled with this dispensationalism etc. It was so deeply entrenched in my mind I had a hard time sorting it out. Now 30 years later its clear to me how false it is. There’s something about a system that is so appealing to our nature. Very much appreciate your article. Thank you.
All I can think of is the Left Behind series and how much fear that stirred in me. Thankyou for this well researched article that spoke the peace of the gospel.
"I used to lie awake at night, terrified that the sky might rip open and my parents would vanish—raptured into heaven—leaving me behind to face the Antichrist. I had recurring nightmares. As a child, I remember running inside from playing outdoors, just to check if my parents were still home. It wasn’t wonder or worship that shaped my faith in those years. It was anxiety. Fear was the engine, and rapture theology was the fuel."
I have never heard anyone articulate this historical version of my young life so perfectly. I would call Mom sick and throwing up at school because the Baptist church across the street would be packed because they were having a program but I thought the rapture had happened and people were flocking to the church trying to get right because that's what the preachers said would happen.
At 50 years old in 2018 I finally had rest and relief from this debilitating anxiety when I was converted. Reading and listening to John Piper helped me understand the election of God. It's taken several years to toss the dispensational and premil garbage. The calmness that permeates my eschatology is absolutely beautiful.
Thank your for sharing your experience. Every time I share those memories I find they resonate with others, especially those 35-50 years old. We all felt so alone in our experience, we didn’t realize other kids were dealing with it as well.
Great article. A dear friend and I differ on this topic, so for ‘fun’ last week, I asked AI to provide supporting arguments for both sides and include bible study questions for each. The results were fascinating and fuzzy 🤣. I’m glad it’s in God’s hands and not ours.
Such a great article. Isn't it funny there is no lion in the book of Revelation? Just Jesus, the lion of the tribe of Judah. Not an actual lion, a title.
Also, Revelation tells us who it was written to, the seven churches in Asia Minor. Not to us 2,000 years later. It was written to a specific people in a specific time. Yes, we can apply the lessons, but no, it was not to warn us about the rapture and the antichrist 2,000 years later.
Last but certainly not least, I think John does not name the beast for a reason. The goal is not to have one person who is the personification of evil that everyone can point to and say, "there goes the evil one." It's to see what of that evil is in our lives and how much of Babylon we have conformed to.
You got me preaching, sorry. Great article. Sorry for what it to come from those who feel threatened by it.
Oh man, I am so glad to see this resonate so deeply with you. I love everything you say here and agree. Now, go and preach it my friend! The good news is still the good news.
Finally. A way to see it all that actually adds up. I’ve spent my life being forced to “go on faith” and being discouraged from wrestling too much with the myriad loopholes and unanswerable dilemmas within dispensational theology.
There are more than half a dozen “theories” on end-times. All have points. All have problems. It will end the way God planned it. Believers should know we have more in common than things that separate us.
Isn’t it about time you took the hint and forget all about this nonsense? There are many ways to pursue spirituality rather than Pentecostal delusions. Pursue the deeper meaning of religious ideas rather than the literal interpretations of the Pentecostal movement—and the conflict will go away.
Why not look into the origins of Christianity that go way back before 2000 years ago. The early Christians took pagan mythology and made them literal history.
The Egyptian mythology, for example, as seen in Horus’ story, was far more spiritual than the Christian versions.
The Jesus story was taken from earlier versions and highjacked by Paul.
I went through that phase during my deconstruction. I reached the conclusion that this narrative is more conspiracy theory than reality. There is, however, interplay in all mythological symbols— even among cultures that had no communication between them. It wasn’t that they were borrowing symbols, but that the same symbols conveyed meaning across the gamut of human experience. And to me, that’s the question that matters: why these stories and symbols that remain, remained?
Denying the historical reality of the Christ event is misguided. It is also misguided to ignore the use of myth in the biblical narrative. I draw heavily from Rene Girard’s sociological understanding of myth that concludes the Christian myth usurps all the others, and that how it changes the world.
You’ve given me something to write about in the future with more details.
If denying the historical existence of Jesus is misguided, then please give me some historical evidence of Jesus outside of the context of the Bible. I have taught Anthropology 102 for the University of South Carolina, which examines a dozen or so cultures and puts them in perspective. I also taught Psychology 101. That combination of studies has shown me that Egyptian forerunners of Christianity is no conspiracy theory.
Modern man has corrupted the spirituality of ancient man.
The Egyptians myths are real, but to say objectively that the Christ event or Christ stories were borrowed from them is, in my estimation, a loosely concocted theory. One that the faith of billions of people, across hundreds of cultures, through thousands of years does not accept. Perhaps the greatest evidence being those early Christians who died for their claims of seeing and believing in the resurrection. The martyrdom of the early church is widely recorded in historical documents, not the least of which were the writings of Josephus, a first century contemporary of Jesus and historian. Moreover, the sites of Jesus ministry and early church can be found throughout archeological sites- just take a trip to Israel and see. Ask for a Palestinian guide for the best unbiased tour.
Nevertheless, we claim faith as Christians that does not demand evidence- something the post-enlightened mind resists. But for the Christian, faith is the substance of hope and the evidence of unseen things. That is a whole other can of worms.
I appreciate your insight. I have two degrees including a graduate degree in Christian and biblical studies. I taught New Testament at the graduate level for a few years. The interplay of myth and spirituality is one of my favorite subjects. I have given my life to studying these things, which has resulted in lot of opinions as you might imagine. Thank you for engaging and reading.
Finding the archeological sites and finding archaeological evidence of Jesus are two entirely different things. Recent archaeological discoveries aren’t of much help in verifying the stories told in the Bible—the timetables just don’t add up.
I require evidence to back up the faith. Faith without evidence is worthless, in my opinion. Just because a large number of people believe something certainly doesn’t make it true.
If you want to do the reading it’s there. World renowned atheist and religious critic Bart Eerhman said in his book finding Jesus: “The reality is that whatever else you may think about Jesus, he certainly did exist.” And “He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non‑Christian, agrees.” Between that and the links I’ve provided, you have a lot of content to research and draw your own conclusions. I did and made my own conclusions. Best of luck pursuing truth!
Will do. But, having a wife that was indoctrinated in Pentecostal dogma as a teenager, I tend to over-react when I see anything related to that foolish genre. Please feel free to DM me if you wish to explain directly.
For the sake of other readers, I will respond publicly here. First off, I totally understand your reaction. I grew up in it and was a licensed minister in it for over 20 years. I have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly-- and that is why I write about it. My "conflict" as a conflicted Pentecostal is not between my personal spirituality and Pentecostal denominational beliefs. I have resolved many of those, and they provide the content of a lot of my writings, such as this one. Instead, it is the conflict of my lived experience and how that fits into the larger context of a movement that is, in your words, "foolish." I don't write to argue for or against, necessarily, but instead to share my story with others who have felt the same conflict. Despite the foolishness, I still believe in and have mystical experiences such as golosslalia, visions, words of knowledge, etc. I believe in continuing and open revelation. Those experiences are a part of and the fruit of my spiritual pursuits. However, my spiritual practices have evolved beyond that include contemplation, solitude, meditation, etc. Therein lies the conflict, which for me is internal, being worked through in real time, and processed through my writing.
Your theology is terrible sir. This oft repeated story of Darby has been disproven multiple times. Historical documents have shown and proven early church fathers taught about the rapture and dispensation
There have always been Christians who believed in some level of dispensations. And there have always been Christians who believe in the rapture. Even full preterists believe a rapture happened circa 70 AD. But the schema, as seen in the chart above, is fairly modern, and there’s no doubt it was popularized in the West through mass production of the Scofield Bible. As I say in my blog, though. this is the least of the least of the problems with Dispensationalism as we know it. There are 15 other reasons why.
I was a Plymouth brethren. John Nelson Darby was their prophet. Went to their bible college. I thought that if I went to school I’d be closer to God. Didn’t happen. Several years later as I wrestled with this dispensationalism etc. It was so deeply entrenched in my mind I had a hard time sorting it out. Now 30 years later its clear to me how false it is. There’s something about a system that is so appealing to our nature. Very much appreciate your article. Thank you.
All I can think of is the Left Behind series and how much fear that stirred in me. Thankyou for this well researched article that spoke the peace of the gospel.
You should have seen the Thief in the Night movies from the 80s.
"I used to lie awake at night, terrified that the sky might rip open and my parents would vanish—raptured into heaven—leaving me behind to face the Antichrist. I had recurring nightmares. As a child, I remember running inside from playing outdoors, just to check if my parents were still home. It wasn’t wonder or worship that shaped my faith in those years. It was anxiety. Fear was the engine, and rapture theology was the fuel."
I have never heard anyone articulate this historical version of my young life so perfectly. I would call Mom sick and throwing up at school because the Baptist church across the street would be packed because they were having a program but I thought the rapture had happened and people were flocking to the church trying to get right because that's what the preachers said would happen.
At 50 years old in 2018 I finally had rest and relief from this debilitating anxiety when I was converted. Reading and listening to John Piper helped me understand the election of God. It's taken several years to toss the dispensational and premil garbage. The calmness that permeates my eschatology is absolutely beautiful.
Glad you are on this journey.
Thank your for sharing your experience. Every time I share those memories I find they resonate with others, especially those 35-50 years old. We all felt so alone in our experience, we didn’t realize other kids were dealing with it as well.
Great article. A dear friend and I differ on this topic, so for ‘fun’ last week, I asked AI to provide supporting arguments for both sides and include bible study questions for each. The results were fascinating and fuzzy 🤣. I’m glad it’s in God’s hands and not ours.
Check out the Augsburg Confession on this an related subject sometime, friend!
https://bookofconcord.org/augsburg-confession/of-christs-return-to-judgment/
Fascinating! I will.
Can you provide a link to Part 1 on this topic? I can’t find it
The series is on differences I have with the Church of God, the denomination I grew up in. Here is part 1:
https://www.danielrushing.blog/p/why-i-dont-believe-in-the-verbal
Oh thank you, I saw that but the title threw me off.
I can see how the title might throw you off. I will be writing a follow up to this blog, though, responding to the feedback.
Amen and amen.
Such a great article. Isn't it funny there is no lion in the book of Revelation? Just Jesus, the lion of the tribe of Judah. Not an actual lion, a title.
Also, Revelation tells us who it was written to, the seven churches in Asia Minor. Not to us 2,000 years later. It was written to a specific people in a specific time. Yes, we can apply the lessons, but no, it was not to warn us about the rapture and the antichrist 2,000 years later.
Last but certainly not least, I think John does not name the beast for a reason. The goal is not to have one person who is the personification of evil that everyone can point to and say, "there goes the evil one." It's to see what of that evil is in our lives and how much of Babylon we have conformed to.
You got me preaching, sorry. Great article. Sorry for what it to come from those who feel threatened by it.
Oh man, I am so glad to see this resonate so deeply with you. I love everything you say here and agree. Now, go and preach it my friend! The good news is still the good news.
Finally. A way to see it all that actually adds up. I’ve spent my life being forced to “go on faith” and being discouraged from wrestling too much with the myriad loopholes and unanswerable dilemmas within dispensational theology.
Dispensationalism doesn't add up. Literally. I am glad this resonated with you. We are not alone in our thinking.
BTW Great article!
There are more than half a dozen “theories” on end-times. All have points. All have problems. It will end the way God planned it. Believers should know we have more in common than things that separate us.
I concur. Some do more harm than others. I would put dispensationalism on that list.
Yes! Thank you for laying it all out so clearly.
Excellent. I agree… and this is a great summary on why!
Isn’t it about time you took the hint and forget all about this nonsense? There are many ways to pursue spirituality rather than Pentecostal delusions. Pursue the deeper meaning of religious ideas rather than the literal interpretations of the Pentecostal movement—and the conflict will go away.
Why not look into the origins of Christianity that go way back before 2000 years ago. The early Christians took pagan mythology and made them literal history.
The Egyptian mythology, for example, as seen in Horus’ story, was far more spiritual than the Christian versions.
The Jesus story was taken from earlier versions and highjacked by Paul.
I went through that phase during my deconstruction. I reached the conclusion that this narrative is more conspiracy theory than reality. There is, however, interplay in all mythological symbols— even among cultures that had no communication between them. It wasn’t that they were borrowing symbols, but that the same symbols conveyed meaning across the gamut of human experience. And to me, that’s the question that matters: why these stories and symbols that remain, remained?
Denying the historical reality of the Christ event is misguided. It is also misguided to ignore the use of myth in the biblical narrative. I draw heavily from Rene Girard’s sociological understanding of myth that concludes the Christian myth usurps all the others, and that how it changes the world.
You’ve given me something to write about in the future with more details.
If denying the historical existence of Jesus is misguided, then please give me some historical evidence of Jesus outside of the context of the Bible. I have taught Anthropology 102 for the University of South Carolina, which examines a dozen or so cultures and puts them in perspective. I also taught Psychology 101. That combination of studies has shown me that Egyptian forerunners of Christianity is no conspiracy theory.
Modern man has corrupted the spirituality of ancient man.
I look forward to reading your work further.
The Egyptians myths are real, but to say objectively that the Christ event or Christ stories were borrowed from them is, in my estimation, a loosely concocted theory. One that the faith of billions of people, across hundreds of cultures, through thousands of years does not accept. Perhaps the greatest evidence being those early Christians who died for their claims of seeing and believing in the resurrection. The martyrdom of the early church is widely recorded in historical documents, not the least of which were the writings of Josephus, a first century contemporary of Jesus and historian. Moreover, the sites of Jesus ministry and early church can be found throughout archeological sites- just take a trip to Israel and see. Ask for a Palestinian guide for the best unbiased tour.
Nevertheless, we claim faith as Christians that does not demand evidence- something the post-enlightened mind resists. But for the Christian, faith is the substance of hope and the evidence of unseen things. That is a whole other can of worms.
I appreciate your insight. I have two degrees including a graduate degree in Christian and biblical studies. I taught New Testament at the graduate level for a few years. The interplay of myth and spirituality is one of my favorite subjects. I have given my life to studying these things, which has resulted in lot of opinions as you might imagine. Thank you for engaging and reading.
Finding the archeological sites and finding archaeological evidence of Jesus are two entirely different things. Recent archaeological discoveries aren’t of much help in verifying the stories told in the Bible—the timetables just don’t add up.
I require evidence to back up the faith. Faith without evidence is worthless, in my opinion. Just because a large number of people believe something certainly doesn’t make it true.
If you want to do the reading it’s there. World renowned atheist and religious critic Bart Eerhman said in his book finding Jesus: “The reality is that whatever else you may think about Jesus, he certainly did exist.” And “He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non‑Christian, agrees.” Between that and the links I’ve provided, you have a lot of content to research and draw your own conclusions. I did and made my own conclusions. Best of luck pursuing truth!
Links for your consideration:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/vp5eeLpXpV
https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAnAtheist/s/9glcrhuhFs
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quest_of_the_Historical_Jesus
Also look into the research of Albert Schweitzer and NT Wright. Both scholars on the subject of the historical Jesus.
I think you’ve missed the point of my entire blog. I encourage you read other posts.
Will do. But, having a wife that was indoctrinated in Pentecostal dogma as a teenager, I tend to over-react when I see anything related to that foolish genre. Please feel free to DM me if you wish to explain directly.
For the sake of other readers, I will respond publicly here. First off, I totally understand your reaction. I grew up in it and was a licensed minister in it for over 20 years. I have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly-- and that is why I write about it. My "conflict" as a conflicted Pentecostal is not between my personal spirituality and Pentecostal denominational beliefs. I have resolved many of those, and they provide the content of a lot of my writings, such as this one. Instead, it is the conflict of my lived experience and how that fits into the larger context of a movement that is, in your words, "foolish." I don't write to argue for or against, necessarily, but instead to share my story with others who have felt the same conflict. Despite the foolishness, I still believe in and have mystical experiences such as golosslalia, visions, words of knowledge, etc. I believe in continuing and open revelation. Those experiences are a part of and the fruit of my spiritual pursuits. However, my spiritual practices have evolved beyond that include contemplation, solitude, meditation, etc. Therein lies the conflict, which for me is internal, being worked through in real time, and processed through my writing.
Your theology is terrible sir. This oft repeated story of Darby has been disproven multiple times. Historical documents have shown and proven early church fathers taught about the rapture and dispensation
There have always been Christians who believed in some level of dispensations. And there have always been Christians who believe in the rapture. Even full preterists believe a rapture happened circa 70 AD. But the schema, as seen in the chart above, is fairly modern, and there’s no doubt it was popularized in the West through mass production of the Scofield Bible. As I say in my blog, though. this is the least of the least of the problems with Dispensationalism as we know it. There are 15 other reasons why.